[White Warg]

If the vote is to leave (and I suspect it might, leave voters seem more likely to vote than remain types I think) then that could easily cause a 2nd Scottish referendum. And that one will be different because of leaving "Britain and the EU" it would be a case of leaving "isolated England" and immediately applying to join the EU.

 

If the vote is to remain then it'll be business as usual. None of Cameron's "renegotiations" are anything substantial or interesting or relevant.

[2scoops]

No @stonedwolf if the vote is to leave, which i dought it will be myself, then by all means lets cutt the Jocks loose if they wan`t too, but you gotta remember that more than half those peeps in Scotland voted stay part of the Union knowing this referendum was coming along, so its kinda the SNP and their leave posse stirring shite on that score imo. That said, man if they cut loose they would be depted up to eyeballs big time and well tattered as is atmo. Us lot in England will be able to trade freely with the world & EU included, they need us more than we need them and even if that wasn`t the case which it is, well its a big wide world we live in and not just Europe, but we would simply cutt deals with the EU, lets say give peeps free movement for the EU citizens so we can trade our shit over their, for sure thats gonna be one of the first things thrown at us if we did leave. All that aside i`m still undecided and cus of the recent scaremongering by the IN posse, well this silly fucker sat here is falling for it and edging more towards staying in atmo, although still undecided, mind you deep down i don`t mind being part of Europe and will  probably vote to stay, its just they are conning scamming backhander type peeps in charge, again though thats same here in UK anyhow and every fucker is on the take no just Europrats.

[White Warg]

The vote was relatively narrow, a 5% swing would see things very differently. What you also have to bear in mind about Scotland is many NO (remain in the UK) voters felt betrayed, rightly or wrongly, after the last minute promises didn't seem to matter that much. I know a lot of people who voted to remain in the UK who would change their tune. It's one of the reasons the SNP got such a massive landslide at the election, they remain credible or even gained credibility with the NO/REMAIN people.

 

The debt is a strange issue, the UK treasury said last time it would honour the entire UK debt. It said this so it could have the advantages of being the successor state, well that's fair enough (it would be the successor state) but any debt Scotland had would be negotiated. Though I'm sure the negotiation would take on a fair proportion, it is surely by definition no different to the proportion that currently exists.

 

As for the Euro debate, both sides IN/OUT are scaremongering and both are doing their Project Fear. "Leave or Immigrants will sell your house to ISIS", "Remain or ISIS will infiltrate your house and use it as an ISIS base", and all the rest of it.

 

My take is both sides have idiots. Both sides had idiots in the Scottish referendum, this one will too. I wouldn't vote either way because of an idiot, for or against. I mean, sure it sounds tempting to vote against an idiot, but when both sides have idiot which idiot do you pick to vote against? And even outside of them, the people trying to make a rational economic argument, be it IN or OUT neither of them truly knows, and any evidence they try to assess they will automatically  put their their preference filters / confirmation bias even if they don't intend it. None ideologically committed to out will really address the in arguments, no one committed to in will really seriously consider the out benefits.

 

I think this referendum is a case of "go with your gut".

 

[Anonymiss]

many NO (remain in the UK) voters felt betrayed, rightly or wrongly, after the last minute promises didn't seem to matter that much

If we stay in the EU, I'm pretty sure that the 'EU Remainers' will be feeling the same way in a few months.

[Funky]

yep that what i ment


i like how missy summed it up

I meant immigration as well. I'm not sure how leaving the EU will lower immigration. I thought that was UN law anyway.

So Brexiters, do we go alone or join TAFTA or TTP?

If we leave we will still be bound by the same rules but have less say. Either way the economy is going global and we need to be part of it.

Left-wing bureaucrats are better than american corporations for worker/enviornmental rights.

Link for the lazy: https://en.m.wikiped...Free_Trade_Area

Edited by Funky, 19 April 2016 - 08:40 PM.

[Anonymiss]

I'm not sure how leaving the EU will lower immigration.

Leaving the EU will potentially reduce immigration from the EU, because EU citizens would no longer have the automatic right to live or work here.
 

do we go alone or join TAFTA or TTP?

False dilemma — They are not the only choices.

Also, if we stay in then TTIP is a certainty because it's an EU/US agreement.

the economy is going global and we need to be part of it.

We are the world's fifth-largest economy.

Sure, it won't last forever (nothing does), but they need us too.

[Anonymiss]

recent scaremongering by the IN posse

What they don't mention is that in 2015 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was £4.5 billion.

That means we donated around £8.5 billion to be a member of the club (how many teachers or nurses could that pay for, I wonder?), and the fee's been trending upwards all the time.

Attached Files

•  UK payments to EU budget since 1973.png   29.63KB   0 downloads

[Dekay]

I think if we leave the EU we may escape the TTIP agreement and from what I have read about it it will give large US corporations the right to undermine europes rules on conditions and many other things that could affect our quality of living, Obama has even threatend this if we leave so I think we should leave, Europe is one thing but being in the same type of secret pact except with US corporations then in charge would surely be worse, I really starting to think we better in control of ourselves out and all this bullshit about we would then have to pay to trade, well like missy has put we paying stupid amounts just to be a part of Europe anyway I think I have made my mind up now. Also just watched a program about the fist time we joined and how Thatcher wanted to then said we'd been conned.

[Anonymiss]

scaremongering by the IN posse

That's all they ever say... Money, economy, woe, strife, economy, money.

Never anything about sovereignty, culture, or self-determination.

It's almost as if all they're worried about is the cash in their pockets.

I'm half-expecting dire predictions involving plagues of locusts and a seven-year famine next

[2scoops]

Leaving EU will certainly not give us control back over immigration or control over our borders, maybe in a legit way it might if we UK nationals wanna be tough and boot out all the hard working Europeans and the rest of the foreigners but lets face it and get real thats just not gonna happen no matter what, so if anyone thinks that they just daydreaming, well i really think so, in fact has anyone of the out posse mentioned it, maybe that loony Farage, but thats all he is, peeps need to get real on that score. But anyhow they are mostly hardworking doing shit back breaking jobs, but i just can`t see them being outed no matter what and it certainly wont give us better control over illegal immigration, that`s biggest lie i`ve heard to date from the leave posse, what a load of shit that is, well i think so again.  I`d go with over 60 to 70% of them are at a guesstimate backbreaking jobs and tbh i just can`t see a problem with Europeans coming here to work to better their lives doing jobs most UK folk don`t wan`t or wouldn`t touch, maybe thats a small gripe at lazy UK peeps. I mean i remember chucking in for a tranny van in the Thatcher (i spit on floor typing that) years travelling to Lincolnshire picking spuds and veg working 12 hours a day  for crap £ when i was 18 or so, i can`t see a many youngsters doing that if the chance arose now, but i can`t see that happening nowadays in all honesty, but thats nowt to do with in or out that bit lol. But if i lived in Poland or anywhere else shit with little job prospects and jobs were going here in the UK and i could get what are decent wages to them id wanna come here to help my family out, what`s the problem with that ? nothing in my eyes,  Maybe theirs a case for the out posse and putting pressure on our services and all that but to me thats hardly a worthy point, in fact another rant here lol when i was die`ing it was a Spannish Doctor saved my life and loadsa foreign nurses and British too that looked after my fucked up self after for 3 months whilst getting better, yes thats our NHS, should we boot all those out as well, or just pick and choose and play like we are Gods ? Cus without thos foreigners in our NHS it would cease to exist. Gaaawd i can`t half babble on sometimes