[TheGreenMachine]

Evening all.

 

I've got a bit of a problem with my extractor fan and I'm not sure what the problem is or how to fix it.

 

I've had this extractor fan (Ruck RK 150L) since I started growing and I originally had it connected to an SMS Twin controller. But over the past year or so it has exhibited some odd behavior which I first put down to the controller going bad so I swapped that out for a brand new SMS Single controller and it still does the same thing. Therefore in my mind it's the fan somewhere somehow.

 

Basically this is what it does:-

 

It runs okay on tick over no problems. The issue lies when it comes to running at full speed i.e. room too warm. The fan will either ramp up to full whack and then after a minute or two go back to tick over or it tries to get to full whack and ends up doing this strange "pulsing" behavior where it's like power on, power off. You can hear it trying to spool up and all this humming and when it does spool up it goes for about a minute then back to tickover again. It doesn't run fully for long.

HOWEVER if I plug the fan directly into the mains it the fan runs at full whack no problem.

 

And tonight it did the oddest thing ever. I went to reset the controller and fan by unplugging it and plugging it back in as I often do when it starts to play up and the fan wouldn't run at all. It just stopped dead. I tried the fan directly in the mains but nothing. So I left it powered up while I grabbed a couple of screwdrivers and a test meter and when I got back it was running at full whack.

 

There can't be that much to these fans that can go wrong. Probably a circuit board with some caps and other bits and pieces on them so I wondered if there's anything in them that might result in this abnormal behavior I could replace myself that would cause this. Shame to throw it away if it's just a dodgy component on a board that could be repaired / replaced. Not only that I'm skint ATM and can't afford a replacement yet so I need it to flog on for another 4 weeks or so

[olmec]

Maybe the bearings are squarings lmao
Google refurbing rvk's there is a bit of info out there. Bearings are a few quid each

[Roy Cropper]

i take it your fan controller has a thermometer sensor probe thingy yes ? as you say its a single jobby, and those sometimes sell probes separate !  

 

check and maybe replace all fuses in plugs ? 

 

if its not on a variac controller of some kind it will hum like fook when turned down 

 

i had the same fan, 6" L1, for the last 4 years or so and i can hear the bearings are fubar, so i've had to get a new one ! 

 

oh and check the wiring ! 

 

failing that take the new controller back and get a new fan as you already have a controller lying around what you replaced ? 

[Anonymiss]

SMS Twin controller [...] SMS Single controller

 
Are these 'dimmer' style controllers, or auto-transformer/variac types?

I suppose it's possible that dimmer-style versions might, by virtue of their chopped/pulsed/spiky waveforms, cause problems with the fan circuitry (if there is any) and/or bearings.

[Forest]

week before last at my pals home i had a 100mm tt vents fan connected to a sms twin and it was pulsing like you mentioned but that  when it was on tick over the next day it went pop  , dimmer control like the sms isnt the right way to control a fan motor, i would say that your fan is going to give up the ghost soon like my vents did its due to the dimmer control  sms uses  it not the right way to control a motor and the motors dont like it and will fuck up after time on these controllers

 

a stepping transformer or a variac based controller  it the only way to go without damaging the fans motors

[TheGreenMachine]

Thanks for all the replies guys / girls.

 

The fan is definitely on its way to giving up completely so I've had no choice but to bite the bullet and get a replacement using my old pal "Credit". I've gone for a SystemAir RVK L1 6" (150mm) which moves aprox 40m3 less than the Ruck versions but it's a little cheaper and it's guaranteed to be here tomorrow.

 

Last night my fan died again and wouldn't come on until I'd plugged it into the mains directly then aprox 2 mins later it kicked into life at full speed. I left the fan running at full speed most of the nights during lights on but had to plug it back into the controller near lights out else it gets too cold with the fan on full. The fan sounded horrible when I plugged it back into the controller. It makes this deep pulsating humm / buzz. It's sort of Bzzzzzz On, Off, Bzzzzz On, Off. The only thing I can do until I get my replacement is manually manage the situation by putting the fan on full at lights on then back into the controller at lights out. It sucks LOL

 

At least when I get my replacement I can then strip down my RUCK to see if refurbishing is an option and not have to rush to get it back together and back in the room. I like my RUCK fan, I think they're good fans. Shame to have to discard it if it can be salvaged.

 

I also kinda figured these cheap SMS controllers would be responsible for damaging the fan. I think they use PAC (Phase Angle Control) or something along those lines as a cheap way of doing things. I really do need to look out for something better so it doesn't keep happening. I did look into building a microcontroller grow controller but I found myself in a world of motors and speed controlling them which I didn't understand then other things came along and distracted me and that's the last I looked into it LOL.

 

Thank you all again for your help.

 

 

 

 

a stepping transformer or a variac based controller  it the only way to go without damaging the fans motors

 

@Forest Any recommendations buddy?

Something preferably below £100 if possible. I've looked and I can only seem to find Variac Speed Controllers not environmental controllers where the room temp is monitored and the fan speed adjusts accordingly.
I'm not too clued up on Motors TBH so I don't know what works with what too well. I've picked up bits and peices of info as time as gone on and from looking at the possibilty of a microcontroller controlled grow but I don't fully understand the differences between this motor and that and what can be speed controlled etc.

Thanks again!

Edited by TheGreenMachine, 18 January 2017 - 11:09 AM.

[Dex]

God knows what make my extractor is but I got it with my black orchard 400 w kit three or four years ago...

The fan did the same went fast and the slow and fast again, it turned out there was a few loose crews inside once I cleaned the blades and sprays most dust off it and put few filter's on my intake to stop any dust coming in and now it's been running fine

You must clean the extractors every three months if you have no flies net or a cloth to catch the dust pulled in..

Quick dry grease spray and screwdriver becomes you best mate when you are a cheap ars like dex

And one more thing try and get more holes to stress the fan less ie.. If your tent sucks in too mutch that will cause stress to the fans and make the motor burn out...

I have the same kit apart from ballasts lol same bulbs too lmao ooh man I need to spend a little

[Forest]

Thanks for all the replies guys / girls.

 

The fan is definitely on its way to giving up completely so I've had no choice but to bite the bullet and get a replacement using my old pal "Credit". I've gone for a SystemAir RVK L1 6" (150mm) which moves aprox 40m3 less than the Ruck versions but it's a little cheaper and it's guaranteed to be here tomorrow.

 

Last night my fan died again and wouldn't come on until I'd plugged it into the mains directly then aprox 2 mins later it kicked into life at full speed. I left the fan running at full speed most of the nights during lights on but had to plug it back into the controller near lights out else it gets too cold with the fan on full. The fan sounded horrible when I plugged it back into the controller. It makes this deep pulsating humm / buzz. It's sort of Bzzzzzz On, Off, Bzzzzz On, Off. The only thing I can do until I get my replacement is manually manage the situation by putting the fan on full at lights on then back into the controller at lights out. It sucks LOL

 

At least when I get my replacement I can then strip down my RUCK to see if refurbishing is an option and not have to rush to get it back together and back in the room. I like my RUCK fan, I think they're good fans. Shame to have to discard it if it can be salvaged.

 

I also kinda figured these cheap SMS controllers would be responsible for damaging the fan. I think they use PAC (Phase Angle Control) or something along those lines as a cheap way of doing things. I really do need to look out for something better so it doesn't keep happening. I did look into building a microcontroller grow controller but I found myself in a world of motors and speed controlling them which I didn't understand then other things came along and distracted me and that's the last I looked into it LOL.

 

Thank you all again for your help.

 

 

 

 

@Forest Any recommendations buddy?

Something preferably below £100 if possible. I've looked and I can only seem to find Variac Speed Controllers not environmental controllers where the room temp is monitored and the fan speed adjusts accordingly.
I'm not too clued up on Motors TBH so I don't know what works with what too well. I've picked up bits and peices of info as time as gone on and from looking at the possibilty of a microcontroller controlled grow but I don't fully understand the differences between this motor and that and what can be speed controlled etc.

Thanks again!

yep build one  for around 100 to 150 quid for parts  dependent if you need two or one variacs   , im happy to build you one if you need it , if you can run you fans at full power  when needed you can make do with just one variac the second one is for turning down you top end speed if you have over sized fan liike i use so ive got reserve power or to keep it quieter

 

parts needed:

atc-800 or stc-1000 temp controller

variac one or two  one amp is fine but bigger will run cooler i use 1amp on my hi power ruck 150

dtdp relay

wire sockets etc

enclosure to put it all in

[TheGreenMachine]

ARRRRRRRRRRRGH!

 

I got my new extractor fan and I've installed it and the same bl00dy thing happens so it looks like my controller has gone bad as well

 

When I first set up my room I was originally running an SMS Twin controller and my Ruck RK150L then after few years I started to get the problems I mentioned in my OP happen so I changed the controller for a new SMS Single. This improved things until recently and the fan started to die - or so I thought. This is when I decided to purchase the replacement fan (thinking it must be the fan - can't possibly be a reasonably new controller) and still the same thing. Fan just doesn't run or runs pathetic.

 

I think what has happened is this - Originally my SMS Twin went bad and must have affected my original Ruck fan. Then when I've replaced the Twin Controller for a single controller, the damaged original Ruck fan has affected my new controller.

 

Right now I'm up shit creek without a paddle. Why does something always seem to keep going wrong with every grow I do no matter how much I try to get it perfect - something always fucks up?

 

 

Last night I had to plug the extractor fan into the mains directly and leave it running on full while the light was on until I got up this morning. Not a good solution when you go in and your lights out temps are below 48 F / 8 C!!!!!!!!

 

I tried using my old SMS twin as a last resort just to get some sort of control but it's fucking horrible. It's not as broken as my SMS single controller at least the twin controller runs the fan but it's pulsing, humming, buzzing, spooling up then going back to idle every few seconds. Wont ramp up to full speed but pulses the fans fast and low instead. It's knackered. What I can tell you is while my SMS Twin lasted a good few years I'll never touch another SMS product again. They are COMPLETE and UTTER SHITE!

 

I brought my SMS SIngle inside the house last night and opened it up. The two primary components responsible for controlling the fan speed / temp are a Triac (BTA12-600B) and a MCU (STC12C5616AD) aka STC 8051. The MCU is very similar to an Atmel chip.

It is a very cheap and basic board. The circuit looks very similar to a room controller I designed in EagleCad to be controlled by Arduino (ATMega328). It makes me wonder how they ever priced their products above the £10 mark when you see what's in them. Soooo Sooo basic.

 

Anyway I've ordered a replacement Triac on ebay to see if that's what has gone bad. Unfortunately, ALL of my electronics gear is in the attic. I cleared it all away when I renovated our bedroom with the intention of moving it all down to my workshop shed but it isn't finished yet so I can't get to my oscilloscope or any other equipment to test it more. If it's the MCU which has gone bad on the board I doubt I'll get another one from SMSCom to replace it. I will try though. If not, I'll just have to get a STC8051 and program it up myself with my own code.

 

My plan now is this:

 

Try to repair the SMS Single or even the twin and get it working enough to get me through a week or two more until the end of my grow. In the meantime I've decided to do as suggested with the Variac based controller and build one myself. If I keep using these shitty SMS controllers and Triacs I'm always going to have this problem and I'll be forever replacing controllers and fans. There's no point buying a new controller because for the most part the cheaper ones are all just as shit and frankly I don't trust any I've seen.

 

I've found the bits I need to build the variac controller and have them bookmarked.

 

It has pissed me off I know that. Just when you think yeah great, this grow is the one, it's all going well and then BOOM - something fails or something goes wrong. Sometimes my fault sometimes not. I wish I had just built a Variac controller to begin with but in fairness my skills wern't up to it back then.

 

 

 

I'M A POTATO!!!!

 

Edited by TheGreenMachine, 21 January 2017 - 09:42 AM.

[TheGreenMachine]

I've sat here and wound myself up about this and decided to contact SMSCom. I'm just not happy that a controller (probably 1 year old) has developed the same fault as my twin which was 4 years old when it died.

I've let rip and they know I'm not happy about when and how it's failed. I never would have dreamed a newish controller would have more or less the same fault so I replaced the fan at a cost of £80 and probably for nothing.

 

They can sort this shit out before I lose my plant.