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#1 gavin

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 10:28 PM

hi I have been working out all the variables and i really think this could work :)

 

the chiller is 50cm x 50cm x 60cm 

 

Attached File  chiller template.png   8.82KB   0 downloads

 

The only problem is its going to cost a lot £500 so will have to give it some thought 

 

based on the flower room getting to 35c the crawl space is going to be between 10c and 18c (soil temp) all year round, so i have got a good 20c difference most the year 

 

so the variables

 

air has very low  thermal conductivity of 0.025 so the Concrete can absorb most the heat that comes into contact with it being 50 more effective than air( so it needs a very large surface with heavy airflow) from there the copper will conduct loads of heat from the slab and pass it into the water (low conductivity but sill 20 better than air so i don't need loads of copper pipes, just a good water pump)  ( 4 x 60cm lengths of  copper should absorb most the heat/cold from each slab) 

 

 

 

Thermal conductivity :

 

air       0.025 

water  0.600 

copper 385.0

Concrete dense 1.2

 

 

 

so the ideal is I have the designed the chiller  like a PC heat sink but 2ft long with just the right size center for a 16" floor fan to blow air through the middle of the concrete slabs, one in the crawl space and one in the flower room, with the shape of the 4 concrete slabs I should get double the surface area

 

 

 

but each slab is about 45kg 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by gavin, 18 September 2018 - 10:30 PM.

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#2 gavin

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 08:01 PM

Evening  all

spent a few hours really trying to work out ways to improve the designe and reduce the weight but also make it more effective

 

need to also make a jig/cast thats not going stick to the Concrete and this designe looks good

 

Attached File  template and chiller.png   183.62KB   0 downloads


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#3 Horse Badorties

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 08:25 PM

From concrete countertop experience, melamine, or a smooth formica won't stick :)

 

Also, welding the cage causes a lot less heartbreak than tying it together.

 

Some form of vibrator is helpful, too, and the girl friend might have some fun later :D

 

Your new design is cool, lol! Just a tad complicated for my pea brain :lol:

 

I don't know if it would work but, maybe a reverse radiant floor might do it.

 

Either fasten piping to the underside of the slab, or lay loops on the top side, and pour and 1 1/2" of concrete on that.

 

Dump the heat in the 55° earth, and recirculate?


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#4 gavin

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:01 PM

From concrete countertop experience, melamine, or a smooth formica won't stick :)

 

Also, welding the cage causes a lot less heartbreak than tying it together.

 

Some form of vibrator is helpful, too, and the girl friend might have some fun later :D

 

Your new design is cool, lol! Just a tad complicated for my pea brain :lol:

 

I don't know if it would work but, maybe a reverse radiant floor might do it.

 

Either fasten piping to the underside of the slab, or lay loops on the top side, and pour and 1 1/2" of concrete on that.

 

Dump the heat in the 55° earth, and recirculate?

 

Evening Horse Badorties

 

some experience with concrete is what I need, from my basic experience with concrete its hard work but easy if you do enough research 

would be happy to use any type of concrete resin but don't want spend loads of money on it and its got to be thermal conductive that matches at least basic concrete mix made with sand and cement 

 

for example, I have been looking up things you can add to concrete mix and Steel Fiber Reinforcement looks like it could work, if i was to add the maxim amount recommended, the Steel Fiber has a thermal conductivity of about 50 so a large amount of Fiber could increase the strength and the thermal conductivity many times basic concrete

 

I would cover my jig in a dpm, cut, folded and fixed in place to give the concrete a good finish and leave the plastic on the cement for at least a week to give me the best finish (don't want the cement drying out and cracking 

 

want to build the mold in a way that its easy to take apart and reuse, lots of video's i have watched on this don't think about this and end up taking a hammer to the mold

I used to be a cabinet maker but the dust caused asthma, so I have some experience with build wooden jigs 

 

 

sorry not welding the cage together, using the cage to hold the copper tubes in place so they don't move when adding the concrete 

 

 

 

lol the Vibration Motor is a great idea, use it on the under side of a board and balance it on tyre and it should give much better results, thanks  

 

my design is based on what I can buy easy to make the jig and to make the surface area as large as possible  (Timber Arris Rail and Feather Edge Fence Board) just play around with them in cad 

 

reverse radiant floor could be an idea if my idea don't go to plan, time will tell my friend :)

 

this is the pipe I would like to use  and a mini pipe bender 

 

 

Attached File  pipes.png   8.79KB   0 downloads

 

and I would use a small insulated tank, pump and connect all 8 panels up in a loop like the pic and back to the tank 

 

thanks again for the help 


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#5 Horse Badorties

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:51 PM

Concrete research is easy, it's the experience that makes the research pay off :lol:

 

You'll probably have better luck tying your cages than we did, welding made it work like we wanted every time, so we went with that.

 

Good thing you were a cabinet maker, me too, all those fitting up tricks will come in handy... and work sometimes :D

 

Pocket screws are a great way to put molds together, and get them apart without the BFH... big fucking hammer!

 

Since these aren't going to be counter tops, I'm sure there's some release agent (besides used motor oil) you could use on plywood. Like on form work.

 

I've only used fiber reinforcement, didn't even realize there was one made of steel... sounds like it may be helpful.

 

Even a random orbit sander can work as a vibrator. Donkey dicks are the best, but may not fit for you, but one from the sex toy shop just might :lol:

 

Good luck, it's very interesting :pimped:


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#6 gavin

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:27 PM

I have been looking into my design and thinking about the work involved and the cost, I do think the idea would work but don't think it can compete with 2 car radiators, fans, pump and small tank.
Could make a very effetive system for less than £150

Quick and easy
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#7 Horse Badorties

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 12:03 AM

That sounds much more reasonable, and easier to draw :lol:

 

I've worked with a couple of systems w/ truck radiators, and they were used for both heating and cooling... I'm trying to remember how :D

 

Also, did some some stuff with hydronics, copper pie running through a bunch of aluminum fins. They fell out of favor because they were so bulky in a house, and I've seen big sections in salvage yards, just a thought :)


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#8 gavin

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 03:15 PM

That sounds much more reasonable, and easier to draw :lol:

 

I've worked with a couple of systems w/ truck radiators, and they were used for both heating and cooling... I'm trying to remember how :D

 

Also, did some some stuff with hydronics, copper pie running through a bunch of aluminum fins. They fell out of favor because they were so bulky in a house, and I've seen big sections in salvage yards, just a thought :)

 

That sounds like a great idea but a little too big for my need, going to use a 5" fan/ cool hood to draw cool air from the crawl space and then directly out of the flower room, this will reduce my temps loads on  its own 

also a 6" intake fan from the craw space and the two rads (one in the cool space the 5"and 6" fans should cause a good amount of air flow so don't need another fan and a second rad hanging between the light and canopy set back 1 ft  so its not blocking the light with a high powered fan behind the rad pulling the hot air from the canopy to maximize the temperature difference between the two radiators to get the best results 

 

 

copper pie running through a bunch of aluminum fins is the way pc water cooled systems work ( the heat exchange is very effective and can remove most the heat created by a cpu running at over 100w and the chip size is just over 1 inch x 1 inch  that is a very high amount of heat to get rid off and a basic small heat sink can do it 

 

understanding thermal conductivity is the key, for example,  a few year back I brought a laptop and it worked but ran a little hot (cpu) took it apart and the heat sink felt hot (did not seam right)

so i removed the heat sink and there was a lot of thermal paste (not good more paste less thermal conductivity even if you taking a few mm round the outside of the chip and 0.1mm thicker paste.

 

so rube it off with  Alcohol  wipes and used a very thin amount of thermal paste with a credit card and so it only covered the middle about 2mm from each edge 

wiped the heat-sink off with Alcohol  wipes, placed the heat sink back on the cpu, clipped it  and twisted it back and forwards to get it to stick and spread the paste out more to cover the chip.

 

turned the laptop back on and its cool, even over clocked the cpu and its still not getting hot.

 

 

that's what made me start thinking about the chiller, only need to remove 6 x the heat of a small heat-sink 


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